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John's avatar

Nicely done. Do you think Jim Thompson should be in there too?

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Philip “Big Philly” Smith's avatar

Jim Thompson was a king of noir fiction. My goal here was to cherry pick so called "literary" authors who could have crossed over to crime. Thompson was already squarely there and is on the Mt Rushmore of crime writers. Thanks for reading.

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John's avatar

I should really read more carefully! 🙂

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Philip “Big Philly” Smith's avatar

Nah. Any excuse to mention the great Jim Thompson is okay in my book.

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James Scott Bell's avatar

I had a workshop with Carver in college. Learned from him the inestimable value of "the telling detail." Same from Hemingway, who I devoured. And, like every college boy of that era, I was totally into Kerouac. Of Mice and Men knocked me out. Still does. And O'Connor's "grace being offered" vision is a powerhouse. I can see all these influences in my own writing. Great musing, Big Philly!

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Philip “Big Philly” Smith's avatar

We share some strong influencea. I remember you mentioning the Carver class before. He's very re-read able too. Thanks for chiming in and don't miss tomorrow's podcast episode where I discuss a major influence from TV!

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Albert Cory's avatar

It must have been Carver's influence on everyone else, because I'd never read him and yet every AI system says my writing resembles him the most.

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Philip “Big Philly” Smith's avatar

Carver is just the biggest name in literary minimalism, so AI probably went for the low hanging fruit. At least it didn't say you wrote like the 50 Shades of Gray lady.

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Albert Cory's avatar

LOL.

There's a "who do I write like?" app that's been mentioned here, but it is not AI. They have 50 writers in their collection, and that's it. I drew Cory Doctorow.

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Control Group's avatar

Well done. These make total sense. I think the bleaker last novel "Winter of Our Discontent" is a "Crime and Punishment" (also could be called noir) styled noir for Steinbeck. The lines were blurry before the true advent of the marketing group known as Genre Fiction there was just fiction.

Literature vs pulp. Is Jim Thompson not just another in a series of existentialist writers including Dostoevsky and Camus (but funnier and with more violence...so more American)?

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Philip “Big Philly” Smith's avatar

Great point. Genres began as organizational guidance for bookstores. I think that's one reason the "literary" authors of that time were quick to compliment and engage with the commercial writers. Once academia became a big industry, they quickly kicked commercial fiction into a literary ghetto. I think your analysis is correct.

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George P Farrell's avatar

Never thought of it that way. Very interesting.

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Philip “Big Philly” Smith's avatar

Thanks. These writers were great, so I'm sure they could have done well in other genres, too.

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George P Farrell's avatar

All favorites of mine and of course Elmore.

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